Excerpts from testimonies given by abortionists to courts

2004; Regarding Partial Birth Abortion

March 30 excerpt, New York trial, Dr. Amos Grunebaum testifying

Q: "After you have dismembered the fetus can it still be living?"

A: "Absolutely. Then I will either dismember more or if the next part I get is intact, I will deliver the rest up to the head and perform a D&E. Just removing an arm or a leg does not necessarily kill the fetus.”
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Dr. Grunebaum describing the first time he witnessed a partial birth abortion:

Q: "You thought that what you witnessed was a miracle."
A:"Correct."

Q: "You understood that the doctor was trying to remove the fetus intact?"
A: "Yes."

Q: "The fetus was not dead when the doctor removed it?"
A: "No. It died by removing the skull and part of the brain."
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Dr. Grunebaum describing a D&E abortion (dilatation and evacuation), i.e., dismemberment of baby prior to removal from the uterus:

A: "You take the forceps, you grasp the fetus and either pull down or rotate it clockwise or counterclockwise and it makes it easier."

Judge: "On whom?"
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April 1 excerpt, San Francisco trial, Dr. Doe testifying

Q: Can you describe for us the procedure you use to do an induction abortion [the same procedure Christ Hospital and other hospitals around the country use]?
A: … She would come into the hospital, have an IV started, and then have Misoprostol [Cytotec] tablets placed within her vagina… right behind the cervix….

Q: Is that typically done in the hospital?
A: Yes.

Q: And then, what happens after the Misoprostol is inserted?
A: It takes some time to kind of work to soften the cervix, maybe get it to dilate a little bit and basically induce labor. Probably in the bulk of the patients it takes 24 hours duration before delivery, but it can be as long as 48 hours….

Q: And when during an induction does fetal demise occur. Do you know?
A: I don’t know. It really depends on gestational age, and sometimes the fetus is born alive.

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April 2 excerpt, San Francisco trial, Dr. Doe testifying

Q. Doctor, going back to the cases in which you are doing a D&E and it proceeds with a partially intact delivery so the calvarium [head] is stuck in the cervix, I think you testified that you slide, you use the forceps to crush the calvarium [head], right?
A. Yes….

Q. Let me just ask you. Can you describe for us how you get the forceps around the calvarium [head] before crushing it?
A. In a situation where the fetus is delivered up until the calvarium [head]?

Q. That's right.
A. Again, as I testified, I would separate the calvarium [head] from the fetus, so--

Q. Let me stop you right there. How would you separate the calvarium [head] from the fetus?
A. Under direct visualization, I would use, seeing outside of the cervix within the vagina that I can see directly, I would use scissors to cut the neck and separate the--I am not in the uterus, I am in the vagina, separating the fetal calvarium [head] from the fetal body.

Q. And after you've done that, the calvarium [head] is still in the cervix?
A. Or in the lower uterine segment.

Q. Okay. Then what is the next step that you do?
A. The next step I would use is to put the Bierer forceps--is what I would most likely be using in the situation--into the uterus, get around, open them wide, get around the calvarium [head], and crush the calvarium [head]….

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From April 1 Associate Press article on Nebraska trial:

[Dr. Leroy] Carhart said at least once a month, an entire fetus is expelled from the mother during a D&E he is performing.
" The fetuses are alive at the time of delivery," he said. There is a heartbeat "very frequently," he said.
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March 30, excerpt from Nebraska trial, Dr. William Fitzhugh testifying

Q: All right. Going back now, I think you said in some instances when you use a suction cannula, that part of the fetus or the umbilical cord will come out through the cervix. Then what do you do at that point?
A: Well, if the umbilical cord comes down, I unattach that from its integrity. I just break it and pull on it. If a foot comes down, I grab the foot and pull down on that.

Q: If no part comes down, as a result of the suction, what do you do?
A: Then I have to place the ring forceps up into the uterus and find a part.

Q: And is there a particular part that you're trying to grasp, at that point?
A: I take whatever I can get, because I have really -- I have a feel of when you feel the cranium of the head, but that's about the only thing I have a feel of when you grasp until you pull it down. I just pull down with the forceps and, you know, see what part you have, and see if you can get more of that part out. If you get more of the part out, you twist to try to get more tissue out. If that doesn't happen, then you pull hard enough that it will disarticulate at that point or break off at that point.

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March 31 excerpt, New York trial, Dr. Timothy Johnson testifying

A: When one does a D&E, technically one of the challenges is to remove the fetal skull, partly because it is relatively large, partly because it is relatively calcified, and it is difficult to grasp on occasion. So one of the common technical challenges of a dismemberment D&E is what is called a free-floating head or a head that has become disattached and needs to be removed.

This can lead to more passages of instruments through the cervix. And technically it is difficult to grasp the head; it is round, it slips out of the instruments that we generally use. Either those instruments or the head can be extruded outside the uterus and cause perforation….

Q: Did you make any observation of the way the physician performing that intact D&E effected the incision into the skull?
A: In the situations that I have observed, they either -- actually, the procedures that I have observed, they all used a crushing instrument to deliver the head, and they did it under direct vision.

Q: Thank you, Doctor.

Judge: Can you explain to me what that means.

Dr.: What they did was they delivered the fetus intact until the head was still trapped behind the cervix, and then they reached up and crushed the head in order to deliver it through the cervix.

Judge: What did they utilize to crush the head?

Dr.: An instrument, a large pair of forceps that have a round, serrated edge at the end of it, so that they were able to bring them together and crush the head between the ends of the instrument.

Judge: Like the cracker they use to crack a lobster shell, serrated edge?

Dr.: No.

Judge: Describe it for me.

Dr.: It would be like the end of tongs that are combined that you use to pick up salad…. The instruments are thick enough and heavy enough that you can actually grasp and crush with those instruments as if you were picking up salad or picking up anything with -

Judge: Except here you are crushing the head of a baby.

Dr.: Correct.

Judge: "According to affidavits I have read, the fetus is still alive at this point?"

Dr.: "Yes, sir."

Judge: "The fingers of the baby opened and closed?"

Dr.: "I did not observe the hands when I observed the procedure."

Dr.: "Were the feet moving?"

Dr.: "Yes sir, until the skull was crushed."